militanta islamister

Öh... militant är man väl om man tillgriper våld för att genomföra sin sak. Så lika som det finns militanta veggar, militanta feminister, militanta djurrättsaktivister m.m.. så finns det militanta religionsutövare.

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Ancilla, face mea laganum!

En oerhört viktig skillnad mellan islamister och muslimer är att islamister tror på islam som politisk ideologi, en muslim bekänner sig till religionen islam.

Det finns förmodligen betydligt fler militanta islamister än det finns militanta muslimer.

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/Morph

Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer."
Customer: (THUMP! Pause.) "No, that didn't help."

Tycker du att våld och religon hör ihop ? Gå till svenska kyrkan någon Söndag och hör vad dom har att säga.... inte så speciellt mycket om våld antar jag. Däremot medmännsklighet och värme.

// BeatBox

"Religon" är inte lika med enbart den svenska kyrkan. Vidare så har den kristna varianten av religion varit en av de mest grymmaste...

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Ancilla, face mea laganum!

Nä.... folk har gjort saker i religonens namn... och det är skillnad det. Religon är ju ett maktmedel för vissa.

// BeatBox

Så lika som det finns militanta veggar
Militanta veggar? Militanta diabetiker? Militanta glutenallergiker?

Precis Matti ;)

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Ancilla, face mea laganum!

Haha! :D

Nä.... folk har gjort saker i religonens namn... och det är skillnad det. Religon är ju ett maktmedel för vissa.

Sant!

Men likväl är de flesta krig under "relgiösa" förtecken.

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Ancilla, face mea laganum!

Som jag sa så använder människor religon som ett maktmedel ibland.

// BeatBox

Tämligen ofta, skulle jag vilja säga. Inte minst om vi tittar på de nu aktuella talibanerna. Men de speglar bara en del av hur det är och har varit...

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Ancilla, face mea laganum!

Ingen religon är väll i grunden våldsamm utan det är väll bara det som utöver religonen som tolkar den så att det passar deras liv och deras syfte

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Emma Goldmans gravplats - liberty will not descend itself onto a people, a people must raise themselves to liberty

några exemplar från bibeln.

Kolla själv, bara på engelska, men alla fattar väl det?:

Nehemiah 13:23-27 (NIV): Moreover, in those days I saw men of Judah who had married women from Ashdod, Ammon and Moab ... I rebuked them and called curses down on them ... I made them take an oath in God's name and said: "You are not to give your daughters in marriage to their sons, nor are you to take their daughters in marriage for your sons or for yourselves. Was it not because of marriages like these that Solomon king of Israel sinned? Among the many nations there was no king like him. He was loved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel, but even he was led into sin by foreign women. Must we hear now that you too are doing all this terrible wickedness and are being unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women?"

Kommentar:
The Bible has always supported what the Ku Klux Klan refers to as "the old time gospel of racial separation". Consider the following sentiment from one that God himself considered exceptionally wise and noble:

Genesis 24:1-4 (NIV): Abraham was now old and well advanced in years, and the LORD had blessed him in every way. He said to the chief servant in his household, the one in charge of all that he had, "Put your hand under my thigh. I want you to swear by the LORD, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you will not get a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I am living, but will go to my country and my own relatives and get a wife for my son Isaac."

Kommentar:
It just wouldn't do to have Abraham's son marry one of those dirty Canaanites, would it? It amazes me that people can read the Bible and not see anything wrong with the conduct of its heroes. Suppose we changed the names? The above passage might become: "Billy Joe Jim-Bob was a God-fearing man, and he said to his chief servant, I want you to swear by the Lord that you won't let my son marry a black woman, but you will find a white woman for him." How does that strike you? Lovely sentiment, isn't it?

Matthew 10:5: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy ..."

Kommentar:
In other words, heal Israelites, but not Samaritans. It looks like Jesus didn't think that the Good Samaritan's favour should be returned.

Ni hittar hela siten här: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creationism

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His Divine Shadow is the most despicable being ever created, short and to the point.

http://forums.planetdivine-shadow.com

Sprit löser inga problem. Men det gör inte mjölk heller.

[Redigerat av His Divine Shadow den 15 okt 2001]

Om dom varit lite insatt i kristendommen i alla fall.... det hade ju inte skadat precis...

Matthew 10:5: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy ..."

Det som menas är att man ska hjälpa de som VERKLIGEN behöver hjälp... tragiskt att dessa arma stackare lyckats vända det till :

In other words, heal Israelites, but not Samaritans. It looks like Jesus didn't think that the Good Samaritan's favour should be returned.

// BeatBox

Det är så det står, försök inte att mjuka upp vad som står i bibeln med sådana vinklingar.
När man sätter sig när och läser den börjar man undra om denna bok inte borde ha 666 på pärmen?

Lite mera som tar upp familje värden:

What are family values? This is a loaded question. Right-wing Christian fundamentalists would have us believe that family values revolve around sexuality: that they are entirely based on the importance of shielding children from sexual language or images, while freely permitting them to see violence and murder. This is the foundation for the MPAA movie rating system, in which nudity, sexually suggestive scenes, or the word "fuck" can all garner an R rating, but it's perfectly acceptable for children to see a hundred people getting killed in a PG-rated James Bond film.

You can probably guess that I strongly disagree with the right-wing fundamentalists' definition of family values. A real definition of family values, as drawn from cultures all over the world, has to do with loyalty and does not obsess over sexuality. The values of family are the values of loyalty and love. Children must be loyal to their parents, and parents must be loyal to their children. They must love one another, support one another, care for one another, and protect one another. In a larger, societal sense, family values are generally accepted to describe our collective loyalty to our children, ie- we as a people must protect our children from harm, and look out for their future.

So the obvious next question is: does the Bible promote family values? Unfortunately, the answer is: not really. Consider the following passage from Genesis 22 (NIV):

Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
...
Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?" "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied. "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together. When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son.
...
The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
Disturbing, is it not? Abraham lies to his own son, so he can trick him into helping him carry the wood to his own funeral pyre! It's not enough that he murder his own son because God told him to, but the bastard is too damned lazy to carry the wood to the sacrifice himself, so he tricks his son into doing it for him! I picture young Isaac looking up at his father with trusting eyes, and I picture that monster Abraham looking down at his son and lying to him about his impending doom. Does this disturb you? It disturbs me, but the fundamentalists apparently have no problem with it, because any atrocity is acceptable as long as you think God wants you to do it. Abraham is praised for his willingness to murder his own son, and God promises to make his descendants as numerous as the "stars in the sky" (thus proving that God doesn't know how many stars are in the sky, which is rather unfortunate for the Biblical inerrantists out there).

Is Abraham the only man in the Old Testament who's praised for being loyal to God and shamefully disloyal to his own children? Unfortunately not. Job was highly praised for remaining unwaveringly true to God despite the fact that God murdered his offspring, while his wife was vilified for becoming angry at God for murdering all ten of her children. Lot, supposedly the only "righteous" man in Sodom, was perfectly willing to sacrifice his daughters to a rape gang in order to protect a pair of male house guests who were supposedly angels:

Genesis 19:8 (NIV): Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.
The Biblical stance on family values is clear: family loyalty is of little or no importance compared to your duty to obey God and worship him. Abraham and Job had no problem with God murdering their children, so they were praised, while Job's wife was anguished and angry over the death of her babies and she was a "foolish woman" (note that the Hebrew word which is translated as "foolish" actually denotes moral deficiency). Lot was praised for his willingness to sacrifice his daughters. And what about our collective loyalty to our children, as a society? Does the Bible support that? Hardly, as we shall see in Deuteronomy 21:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (NIV): If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.
Whew! Interesting view of family discipline techniques, isn't it? But isn't this the same God who said "Thou Shalt Not Kill?" Yes, but if you examine the order of the original Ten Commandments, you will find that "Thou Shalt Not Kill" comes after "Honour thy father and mother". Therefore, according to the hierarchy of laws established in the original Ten Commandments, it is perfectly acceptable to murder your children if they won't honour you because they have broken commandment #5, which sits higher than "Thou Shalt Not Kill" (#6). As an aside, if you examine Deuteronomy and Leviticus in depth, you will see that they both contain a great many situations in which it is supposedly acceptable to kill. Perhaps this helps explain why the United States, the last strongly religious nation in the G-7, is the only one which retains and regularly implements the death penalty for criminals.

Alltså gud framför allt, total lydnad ska det va.

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His Divine Shadow is the most despicable being ever created, short and to the point.

http://forums.planetdivine-shadow.com

Sprit löser inga problem. Men det gör inte mjölk heller.

Det är skillnad på vad det står och vad kristna tolkar. Menar du att världens kristna tolkat bibeln fel eller ?

// BeatBox

Hur manga idag tolkar och "lever enligt" Bibeln beror ju fortfarande mycket pa vem som "tolkade den forst". Bibeln forstods fran forsta borjan av ett fatal "larda" som gav sin syn pa den. Nar den sedan oversattes sa var nasta problem att de flesta inte kunde lasa (den valutbildade och laskunniga "overklassen" var da relativt liten). Det ar ju egentligen forst uner de senaste 100 aren (kanske inte ens det) som manniskor fran alla klasser har haft mojlighet att sjalva fa lasa bibeln, och darfor ifragasatta det som star i den.

Jag tycker att det ar halsosamt att man idag i Sverige kan ifragasatta religionen och dess paverkan. Tyvarr sa har man inte samma mojligheter i manga lander dar islam ar huvudreligionen.

Personligen sa tycker jag att det ar sorgligt att behova satta sin tilltro i ett "hogre vasen" istallet for att vaga tro pa sig sjalv, och att de beslut man fattar ar riktiga.

[Redigerat av annesophie den 15 okt 2001]

Det är skillnad på vad det står och vad kristna tolkar. Menar du att världens kristna tolkat bibeln fel eller ?

Kanske att märka ord, men att döma av din första mening tycks det som om du själv menar att kristna har tolkat bibeln fel. I övrigt, finner folk en trygghet i kristendomen eller islam, får de väl tro på det. Men de ska inte låta sin tro gå ut över andra.

--> UlfT

I övrigt, finner folk en trygghet i kristendomen eller islam, får de väl tro på det. Men de ska inte låta sin tro gå ut över andra.

Bra sagt...typ det jag menade! Du ar alltid lika klok *ler*...

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"Om en man med flera personligheter hotar att ta livet av sig, kan man kalla det en gisslansituation?"